Saturday, July 9, 2005
Love Triangle Between Three Nations
I haven't intentionally watched a Chinese drama serial on TV in over 20 years, so to make up for lost time, I'm now slogging through this mega set of 28 DVDs, 84 40-minutes episodes of "Love Triangle Between Three Nations" (三国演义）. I now have a better idea of why the Chinese people are unparalleled in their ability to think up the most awesome plots to trick others; it's totally thinking out of the Chinese takeaway box. I reckon it's so much a part of the culture, a 2000-year history that contains such interesting tales of heroes and intriguing battle strategies that folks live their lives or act partly in relation to these ancient stories.
I'm halfway through the DVDs, just finished the Battle of Red Cliffs (赤壁之战) in which the insanely clever master tactician Kong Ming knows that they will be able to trap their enemy Cao Cao, but commands the red faced general Guan Yu to stop him, knowing that Guan Yu will let him off because Cao Cao will appeal to his emotions by citing his past kindness towards Guan Yu. Kong Ming wants to let Cao Cao go because he still needs him to be alive as part of his plan. My shocking reaction was: Has Bush read Triangle before? Where on earth is Bin Laden?!
Anyway, I'm wondering if there are Western stories of a similar nature. I haven't read The Iliad, maybe it also has these sorts of political, military, ridiculously ingenious plans and plots, too?
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Ooohhh... I love the Sanguo (the novel itself, the actual history, the CCTV series). There is one other period that I like for the intrigue, plots, stratgies, etc., --the fight between the (future) Han and the Chu in the chaos between the collaspe of the Qin (first empire) and the Han (i.e., Liu Bang vs. Xiang Yu).
No, not so much the Iliad. There are some in the Roman and Greek histories--Thucycides, Herodotus, Polybius, Livy, Plutarch, etc. but not to the degree of deviousness that you would find in the Sanguo. The Europeans seem to be a lot more attracted to the open confrontation, clash of arms, etc. But that's a cliche--they have plenty of their own intrigues. Just can't seem to think of a *book* that has as many right now.
Jeff, you mentioned it was a dvd set, but the link you gave was for the vcd set... Where did you buy it, though?
Huichieh, about deviousness: I believe accounts of the Sangoku are mostly about military deviousness. Open warfare was not favoured by Europeans due to their lower populations - you'll note that even the Yanyi mentions how devastating the 50-odd years of conscription and militarisation was on total population of China. Official Han dynasty surveys put the population at 56 million, and the early Jin dynasty began with 16 million. Given this figure, I'd say none of the deviousnessness paid off - why be devious if it doesn't save you lives and effort in the long run?
The Iliad has lots of deviousness and trickery - much of it on the level of its characters. There's wifestealing, a rigged competition between the three goddesses, an assasination of a king by his queen...
But you'll really need to read the sequel. Odysseus (a descendent of Hermes the trickster god) constructs at least one act of deviousness or deception in every book/chapter in order to circumvent the dangers he meets on his journey home.
aki, my parents bought the DVDs in mainland China. The link I provided was just to show what the show looks like. I've seen it sold in Singapore, I think it's about $80++ or thereabouts. Take note that I've also seen a VCD version in sg. However, the VCD version only contains about half the number of episodes (the more famous and interesting ones). No point getting this version, get the full 84 episodes set!
As to 'deviousness', the sorts I like is in 'cleverness', not so much as the 'brutal' or 'not clever but barbaric' types. Anyway, I don't think the author is thinking about 'population preservation' when these stories are written lol
When I finish the DVDs, maybe I'll take a look at the other period that huichieh points out. Is there a television series on the Iliad? Oh, Brad Pitt! ;)
HBO should have made some version of the Iliad or the Odyssey. I recall watching a cgi-enhanced miniseies of the Odyssey on tv 2 years ago.
For sheer political intruige, you might want to get the DVD of the tv series I, Claudius.
I have a friend who'd like to get the dvd set. Which mall/shop in Singapore did you find it?
I think I saw it at IMM a few days ago, I forgot whether it's the shop upstairs or downstairs... but I'll keep a lookout for you when I go out...
The 'deviousness' in the yanyi was more than military--don't forget the court intrigues, though in that department, the CCTV Kangxi and Yongzheng are even better--yes, even more baroque than I Claudius (and the sequel Claudius the Emperor). Ok, ok, the Romans were pretty into this sort of things--Seutonius (Twelve Caesars) is full of them.
Needless to day, deviousness, schemes, plots, etc., can be found throughout the classical western works--Iliad, Odyssey (how can I read the first without reading the latter?), Aeneid, etc., etc. But there is a clique--or hypothesis, if you will--among military historians (e.g., Keegan) that the way of war in the West favors the open and direct confrontation; in contrast, the East favors the trick, the outflank, the shot and run, etc.
Very cliche, of course. Though there is something to it: despite the small populations/armies involved, the typical Greek battle in the classical period was an open confrontation--pretty much a rugby scrum.
The open fight on level terrain between hoplites in massed ranks was so much the supposed norm that the Spartans expected, counted upon, the Athenians to come out to meet them on the field when they invaded Attica at the start of the Pelopponesian war. But the Athenians, led by Pericles, decided not to (totally out of the box by the standards of the time) and stuck to defending their walls instead.
Even the most famous tactical innovation of the period--the weighted flank (by Epaminodas of Thebes) is still about sheer weight, even if applied at a narrow front. (Until some smart guy comes along and decided that it's no shame to use slingers and bowmen who will outrun a heavily armed hoplite...but that's another story.)
As for the population thing. The deviousness was meant to win wars, not to save lives per se. In any case, most of the damage was done before the Three Kingdoms period proper during the Yellow Turban Rebellion, the military suppression of it, and the aftermath. My guess is that many times more non combatants died than soldiers--due to famine caused by the break down in agriculture, as much as due to violence.
Just remembered the correct technical term for the move 'invented' by Epaminodas: "Oblique Order" (see this, for example). Alexander the Great used a version of it a lot.
Nice roundup Hui Chieh, I'm also vaguely into the battle tactics of the ancient Western armies and whether it's similar to the Chinese. I've only played the computer games for the Western guys (as in Rome: Total War). Those against all odds battles where the disadvantaged guy beats the opposition (Gaugamela, Cannae, Red Cliffs...) are interesting to study...
There is an excellent book on Ancient military stuff, based on good research on the source material, including both historical writings of the period and archaological stuff. John Warry et al,
Warfare in the Classical World : An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Weapons, Warriors and Warfare in the Ancient Civilisations of Greece and Rome. One of my all time favorites. There are other more specialised books on the Roman Army, or Greek Warfare in some specific period, but Warry does a great overview of them all between two covers.
Unfortunately, I could never quite find a book that is as good an introduction for the Chinese side, especially on the tactics. There are tons on good specialist books though (see e.g., this).
Huichieh, here's the beef: military ploys are supposed to help winning the war easier.
Fact - the war took more than 50 years to finish. We could compare the effectiveness or speed of conquering a similar area of territory with other military campaigns of the same or earlier periods.
It is higly unlikely that the Yellow Turban rebellion decimated the population. The author of the Sangoku relishes in accounting the huge battles and constant warfare of the interregnum - where did all those bodies come from if the population was already decimated to that extent?
What bothers me while reading the book and its translations is the author's joy at reporting, at the end of most battles, that the fields ran red rivers of blood. This book may embody the cleverness of the Chinese, but not their good sense...
akikonomu
The main point is not about the YT rebellion per se, but that it is likely that the bulk of the deaths were not due directly to military related violence, but famine caused by the complete breakdown of production and agriculture across the northern half of the Empire--that, is more or less testified to by the historical writings (e.g., Sanguozhi) and other literary sources.
In any case, I included the aftermath: the period when the various warlords that came into being after the suppression of the rebellion began duking it out. The period when Dong Zuo was in power and later defeated. Got to remember that a lot of damage was done in that time period as well.
Most of the damage, however, was in the north. In contrast, the southern half of the Empire--e.g., places such as Jingzhou (ruled at one point by Liu Biao) and Sichuan (later Shu Han) in the west were comparatively sheltered. This, together with the defeat of Cao Cao at Red Clift in 208, provided a basis for the formation of the two southern regimes. One might say that, economically, Shu and Wu stood a chance in part because of the relative weakness of the north, because otherwise, the center of gravity in China at that point is still pretty much in the Yellow River valley. (More below)
At the end of the day, there are only so many people you can conscript and so many enemy soldiers you can kill in the era of pre-industrial warfare. Incidentally, conscription may not be the dominant mode of military manpower in that period. If I remember what I read before, it's something like a cross between professionals and clan based soldier castes. It's been a while though.
And you certainly do not want to trust the figures given for troop levels in the yanyi! They are highly inflated, to say the least. One example: Cao Cao was supposed to have some 820,000 at Red Clift according to the novel. Historical sources (which are themselves subject to inflation) suggest something more like 200,000. And Liu Bei definitely couldn't have the 600,000+ the novel said he had when he embarked on the ill-fated invasion of Wu.
50 years to finish? My take (also the traditional one, actually) is that it is mostly because of Red Clift. 189 Cao Cao first became a significant force. 196 he 'backed' Emperor Xian, thus holding hostage the imperial cause. From then until 207 he mopped up most of the north--ten years, give or take.
But then we have Red Clift '208. If he had won this one, China would likely have been reunified in another decade max. But against odds, he lost. His base was still intact--and neither Liu Bei nor Sun Quan would have been able to press any real advantage against him. But he couldn't mount any new offensives against the south any time soon either. This opened the opportunity for Liu Bei and Sun Quan to basically consolidate the south (and southwest).
Once Shu and Wu were consolidated, a semi-stable system emerged that would not, could not, be easily overturn until such time when the north recovered enough of its latent economic strength and population to to once again assert its inherent preponderance. That this happened only four decades later was not all that surprising.
The ploys are supposed to help win wars easily, but then, both sides employed them...so...
Actually, the yanyi is much more detached than your last bit might suggest. The opening poem (by Yang Sheng) is a good example. And I don't think the "blood flowing like river" stuff is meant to glorify war as much as it is to remind the reader of just how much senseless violence there is.
Addendum:
Should be "Red Cliffs" (not "Clift") no idea what got into me...
Been looking at the dates again. 208 Red Cliffs. 208-ca. 220 consolidation of the South under Shu and Wu. 220 Cao Cao died, succeeded by Cao Pi. 221 Liu Bei crowned Emperor in Cheng Du to carry on the Han name, thus officially inaugurating the Three Kingdoms period. 263 Shu fell to Wei. 264 The Sima's took over from the Cao's. 280 Wu fell, ending the Three Kingdoms period.
So strictly speaking, the official 3K period was 221-280, 6 decades. Throw in the period of unrest before that beginning with 184 YT Rebellion and we have almost a century of intermittent warfare and warlordism.
No wonder the population declined so drastically.
Trackback: Infernox gets inspired by this post and begins to read Love Triangle.
Aki: Yesterday, I saw the DVD set at the Toa Payoh Hub, open area above the train station. It costs about a hundred bucks, which I think is a more probably price than what I originally thought. The full VCDs are sold too, but I'd rather get the DVDs if you have a reasonably large TV...
He also points to this (still in progress) comic strip version of the yanyi. Check out the "Chengdu Five Tigers" boy band wallpaper (from left to right: Zhang Fei, Guan Yu, Zhao Yun, Ma Chao, and the old guy on the keyboard, Huang Zhong). LOL
hahhaaaa that's so cute! LOLLL
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